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spending grows enormously every year.
This truth is known to everyone.
C. Vance. Spending is growing, but
not in real terms.
A.A. Gromyko. We are speaking about
the real budget.
C. Vance. From the point of view of
dollars our military budget is growing, but
only because of inflation.
A.A. Gromyko. I am afraid that now
you will start to throw blame at us for not
having inflation in our country. In fact the
USA military budget is growing both in real
and in material terms. You can not cover
this with inflation.
You spoke further on about the situa-
tion in Africa. I must say that in this case a
total and crude distortion of the real situa-
tion is taking place. If I, discussing this
topic, behaved like some of your high rank-
ing officials, who let loose with simply in-
You do not know his reasons, who he works
for, do you? Many questions arise here.
C. Vance. Evidently it does not make
much sense to continue this argument. I
mentioned these facts only to illustrate dif-
ficulties in receiving trustworthy informa-
tion. Probably it is one more argument in
support of the necessity of having more fre-
quent meetings and exchange of opinions
between us.
A.A.Gromyko. Perhaps. But if on the
basis of this type of information, known to
be false, a broad campaign, hostile to us, is
developed in the USA, then it is another
kettle of fish. And if, on top of everything,
the government takes part in this process and
heats up this campaign, then what conclu-
sion should we draw? Really, this is not
happening within the four walls of a work-
ing study. It is taking place on a national
C. Vance. President Carter asked me
to find out your opinion of the expediency
of carrying out exchange visits of some se-
nior military officers from the Soviet Union
and the USA. I mean, for example, a meet-
ing between the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff and the Head of the General
Staff of the USSR Armed Forces. As for
selecting questions for discussion, they can
agree on them in advance.
A.A.Gromyko. We will discuss this
question and inform you about our decision.
C. Vance. We start from a belief that
such exchanges could demonstrate to the
public our readiness to have contacts on all
levels. This could even prove, in a way, that
we do not aim at confrontation.
[sections omitted dealing with SALT II ne-
gotiations and Cyprus situation—ed.]
During the final meeting with the USA
Secretary of State Vance the issue of two
Soviet citizens, staff members of the United
Nations Secretariat [Valdik] Enger and
[Rudolf] Cherniaev, who are being held in
a prison in New York City, was discussed.
The record of the main contents of this con-
versation, which took place in the presence
of two interpreters only, is given below.
A.A. Gromyko. During this meeting
you promised to answer the question we
raised about freeing the two Soviet citizens
kept in prison by American authorities.
C. Vance. I can do that. At the present
time we can not undertake any definite ac-
tions as far as these two people are con-
cerned. I specially got acquainted with the
case and am afraid that this matter will have
to take its normal course.
As for reducing the amount of bail,
[State Department official] M[arshall D].
Shulman has already told a representative
of the USSR Embassy in the USA that the
lawyers of the two mentioned people know
how to solve this problem in accordance
with American legislation.
A.A. Gromyko. I listened your answer
with the feeling of regret. What prospects
do you see for solving this problem?
C. Vance. I think that a legal proceed-
ing will take place, and when it’s over we
will see what we can do.
A.A. Gromyko. I will not repeat what
I have already said on this account, not to
waste time. You are familiar with every-
thing I said about our attitude to such a de-
velopment of events and about possible con-
I want to inform you that we found and
confiscated more than 50 bugging devices
which were functioning in different Soviet
institutions in the USA — in Washington,
D.C., in New York, in San Francisco. I will
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